Need help selecting a motor

[Maxed]

I have been doing some thinking lately (I know, dangerous) and I just don't think the 332 stroker will make the power I want. I want to have around 550-600 RWHP on motor. The 332 is just not going to make those numbers...

I have asked Matt to look into what an iron block 408 LS1 would cost to build. GM has a nice single plane intake and MSD makes a kit to take care of the ignition. There are a couple a down sides going this route such as getting motor/tranny mounts and headers made.

The other route I am thinking about going is building a big block Ford 522 stroker. Parts are fairly cheap and conversion kits are available. I think 600 RWHP would be easy to obtain while keeping it streetable. The only issue I have is I know nothing about the Ford 460's.

I would welcome any and all thoughts.

TIA, -Allen

[tirefryin_s10]

if you want power/reliablity and a decent price tag go chevy if you REALLY like to work on your motor lol build a ford

[futant]

for your goal stated, BB Ford 522.

[tirefryin_s10]

lol ya if you want some SERIOUS fab work if not go small block

[Maxed]

lol ya if you want some SERIOUS fab work if not go small block

I don't know where you get your info from, but swapping in a big block Ford in a Fox is easy and several companies offer headers, oil pans, motor mounts/plates etc,.

As far as the reliability comment I have built and raced from all three (Ford, Chevy and Mopar) and they all have their quirks. They are all reliable if built right with quality componets.

I don't believe a small block will put down the numbers I am looking for and be both reliable and streetable.

I am really starting to lean towards a 522 CI or larger BBF.

-Allen

[bud4660]

Allen what are you thinking. FE all the way man....lol
Ok now that I got that out of the way. You can build a good 351w stroked to 427 that will get you where you want in numbers. Do an all alum. motor and save the weight. Then it doesnt have to make so much HP. Its the street side of this project thats going to be hard to do. I looked at both of these when I had the 85. I decided the all alum. small block would be a better deal because of the weight. The big block will be more fun, but the weight on the noise is tough to get around. Its the same thing I'm dealing with now. I would have been better off doing the stroked small block in my 67. But because the car is an S code I decided to fight the FE. If not for that I could have built the small block for less and had more power and less weight and it would have been easier to work on in the car. Check out some of the motor Ads in the fast ford and muscle mustang book. Seems like Coast and Bennett had something along the lines of what your looking for.
And if you say anything else about putting a bowtie motor in that ford I'm coming over and beat you with a FE blue valve cover!!! lol
:D

[Maxed]

I thought about going with a stroked 351 but I still don't think it will hit the numbers I want and be streetable. The aluminum block sounds good but to expensive this go around.

An aluminum headed BBF is going to weigh less than 180 pounds more than a SBF. I will be running a tublar k-member/a-arms as well as going to fiberglass fenders/hood/trunk lid. Thoses pieces alone should shave 200+ pounds off the car.

I am 80% sure I will be running a BBF 514 (or bigger). I found some truck pulling sites and it seems the 2-bolt 460 is pretty damn stout. Most were running 900+ hp and turning 7500 rpms for their pulls (around 15 seconds or so). I ran across several guys that pulled their BBF down for a fresh up and found no problems with either the crank or block (magnafluxed).

I'm thinking of going pretty much all FMS. Those new SCJ aluminum heads seem to be making good numbers out of the box. I also want to run a roller cam and lifters. Hell Ford even makes motor mounts and a oil pan to swap a BBF into the Fox Mustang.

You gotta admitt the LS1 (carbed 408) in a Mustang would flat fly... :)

-Allen

[bud4660]

Do I need to show you what a blue FE valve cover looks like?? :D

Well the BBF with alum heads, intake and water pump will take a bunch off. I ran a 429 in an old 73 truck years ago. Made more power than I could get hooked to the ground. And that is a bolt in for the fox. Sounds good. And the Motorsport motor looks good. I have read several stories on guys running them with no problems too. Nothing like a crate motor. Wish someone made an FE crate motor for less the 18K+ that made power.....lol

[tirefryin_s10]

oh shit sorry i thought this was for a rx7 my bad then yes if it is going in a stang go big block ford

[deceiver]

514 stroker is not FE, it's 385 series. I'd love to get into one of those, but never had the opertunity.. a great site to check is fordmusle.com, it's the best place I've found for 385 stuff.. biggest problem with the bbf is the weight, at about 800 pounds stock, it's almost twice the weight of an aluminum headed 302.

The heads for the bbf are pretty pricey, but you can pull your 600hp out of backyard ported heads and a cam swap - intake/carb/headers of course. pretty easy to find one of these.. just look for a lincoln from the late 70's. can usually pick up the cars cheaper than a pulled motor. very good reliability, stock parts hold up well to 700-800hp

[bud4660]

514 stroker is not FE, it's 385 series. I'd love to get into one of those, but never had the opertunity.. a great site to check is fordmusle.com, it's the best place I've found for 385 stuff.. biggest problem with the bbf is the weight, at about 800 pounds stock, it's almost twice the weight of an aluminum headed 302.

The heads for the bbf are pretty pricey, but you can pull your 600hp out of backyard ported heads and a cam swap - intake/carb/headers of course. pretty easy to find one of these.. just look for a lincoln from the late 70's. can usually pick up the cars cheaper than a pulled motor. very good reliability, stock parts hold up well to 700-800hp
I dont think anybody said the 514 was an FE. Thats an inside joke between me and Allen. And the 429 I ran in the truck is also a 385 series motor. Not sure where Allen is on his project. But you can check the link in my sig to see what I'm doing. And just about anything for a Ford big block isnt cheap. Next to the modular motors being used today. I think this FE I'm building is just as bad cost wise. But its only money..... :D

[econodrag]

Hey Bud....You need to bring that FE Stang out to Denton and lets line it up against my small block powered 68 Cougar. It's just a tiny 306 :D .

[bud4660]

Hey Bud....You need to bring that FE Stang out to Denton and lets line it up against my small block powered 68 Cougar. It's just a tiny 306 :D .
When I get it put together I plan on making the trip up that way with the TMCCC group...... :yeah:

Is that all the wheelie you can get? I'm almost doing that sitting still.... :D

[econodrag]

Thats all I'm going to let it do. I want the car to go foward.... not..... up ;)
I like picking on FE engines with my little ole 306 :stick:

Maybe you should think about running with the Texas Outsiders also.

[bud4660]

Thats all I'm going to let it do. I want the car to go foward.... not..... up ;)
I like picking on FE engines with my little ole 306 :stick:

Maybe you should think about running with the Texas Outsiders also.
I know Mark and the outsiders. Been up to his place acouple times. But I run with T/C here. And Mark will not let mustangs run NSS. I tried already. So I'm just going to have to spank his big galaxie..... :D

[econodrag]

You can run in Open Comp with that car. I can only run in Open Comp with the Cougar since I have installed ladder bars. I think they are scared of my little motor. :eek:

[bud4660]

You can run in Open Comp with that car. I can only run in Open Comp with the Cougar since I have installed ladder bars. I think they are scared of my little motor. :eek:

We talked about that. He had some open slots. But I didnt like the kind of cars I would be running. I'm going to foot brake this thing for now. Maybe later do a brake. Time will tell....... :D

[econodrag]

What's wrong with that. I run against them with success on my foot brake. It will just make you a better foot braker. Boy is it ever satisfying when you beat those cars with the buttons.

[bud4660]

What's wrong with that. I run against them with success on my foot brake. It will just make you a better foot braker. Boy is it ever satisfying when you beat those cars with the buttons.
Do you run at Redline? I swear I have seen a car like yours out there when we go to do some testing. I know. I use to be one of those guys.... :D

[econodrag]

Do you run at Redline? I swear I have seen a car like yours out there when we go to do some testing. I know. I use to be one of those guys.... :D

I have run there a few times but I run denton most of the time.

[attatoy]

hell if you want power....turbo the mafucker! cheap and light , and stronger the bottom... more hp!

[ls1hybrid]

hell if you want power....turbo the mafucker! cheap and light , and stronger the bottom... more hp!

mmmmmm...turbo 460 BBF... :drool:

[yyz28]

I have been doing some thinking lately (I know, dangerous) and I just don't think the 332 stroker will make the power I want. I want to have around 550-600 RWHP on motor. The 332 is just not going to make those numbers...

I have asked Matt to look into what an iron block 408 LS1 would cost to build. GM has a nice single plane intake and MSD makes a kit to take care of the ignition. There are a couple a down sides going this route such as getting motor/tranny mounts and headers made.

The other route I am thinking about going is building a big block Ford 522 stroker. Parts are fairly cheap and conversion kits are available. I think 600 RWHP would be easy to obtain while keeping it streetable. The only issue I have is I know nothing about the Ford 460's.

I would welcome any and all thoughts.

TIA, -Allen

I think your 408 Carb'ed LS1 would make the power you're talking about easy enough... Ford BB is going to cost less in the long run I bet though...

[bud4660]

I think your 408 Carb'ed LS1 would make the power you're talking about easy enough... Ford BB is going to cost MORE in the long run I bet though...

Here Scott. I fixed it for you....... :D

[fivofvr]

For a ford engine that will produce 550 hp. I would go with a Dart productions iron race block 9.5 deck with a 4.00 stroke and then build from there. Go with some nice pistons and then some crowler rods and use a 28 oz balance or zero balance. Then use some canted valve heads and a nice cam from luinati and you will be well into the 500 horsepower range.

[yyz28]

REALLY?!?!?! A ford BB is going to cost more than an LS1 solution? Jesus... LS1 shit is PRICEY, to the extreme... 3K for a stroker kit, and shit like that. I had no idea ford BB shit costs that much.

Go Chevy BB then! :)

[Maxed]

REALLY?!?!?! A ford BB is going to cost more than an LS1 solution? Jesus... LS1 shit is PRICEY, to the extreme... 3K for a stroker kit, and shit like that. I had no idea ford BB shit costs that much.

Go Chevy BB then! :)

I think Bud was giving you a hardtime??

BBF stroker kits go for less than 2K...

[bud4660]

I think Bud was giving you a hardtime??

BBF stroker kits go for less than 2K...

No I wasnt. And yes it is. You want to see. I have a ton of little invoices with large dollar amounts. And My stroker kit was almost 4k and that wasnt the best crank and pistons out there either. But then again this is an FE. So that makes it a little more pricey. I think I should have dont the small block myself....... :D

[Maxed]

No I wasnt. And yes it is. You want to see. I have a ton of little invoices with large dollar amounts. And My stroker kit was almost 4k and that wasnt the best crank and pistons out there either. But then again this is an FE. So that makes it a little more pricey. I think I should have dont the small block myself....... :D


If you weren't building an Edsel it wouldn't cost so damn much :D

The 385 series is much cheaper to build than the FE. I am looking to go with a 557 CID and it runs $1999.00. That includes H-beam rods, forged piston and cast steel crank and well as rings and bearings.

[bud4660]

If you weren't building an Edsel it wouldn't cost so damn much :D

The 385 series is much cheaper to build than the FE. I am looking to go with a 557 CID and it runs $1999.00. That includes H-beam rods, forged piston and cast steel crank and well as rings and bearings.

I know. Thats why nobody builds Edsel's anymore..... :D

Here. This is what you trying to stay up with......... :stick:

[Mojo]

Go with an LS1 or maybe even look into a GM Ecotech 4-cyl with a turbo and shitload of nitrous. Great weight savings with the 4 banger and bottle combo.


Bud ---

Holy shit!! That stang is looking AWESOME!!!

Can't wait to see her run!

[bud4660]

Go with an LS1 or maybe even look into a GM Ecotech 4-cyl with a turbo and shitload of nitrous. Great weight savings with the 4 banger and bottle combo.


Bud ---

Holy shit!! That stang is looking AWESOME!!!

Can't wait to see her run!
Thats Mojo. If you missed the other pictures here a link. I will be glad when its done. This has been a bigger project then I though at first. But I want it right.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/12578

[Maxed]

I know. Thats why nobody builds Edsel's anymore..... :D

Here. This is what you trying to stay up with......... :stick:

As long as its another Ford that beats me :)

Mojo, for the HP levels I am shooting for I would cost me a fortune to build an LS1. The more I research and talk to people it looks like I can hit the 900 to 1000 HP mark on motor...then throw some giggle juice at it.

-Allen

[Arallus]

did anybody see the Grand National show, on the history channel last night? pretty cool, two teams of two take two GN's and swapped the turbo, exhaust, and a couple of other things, then they race them at the track, best of 3 runs gets to keep both cars.


~Steve

[fordrevhead]

For a ford engine that will produce 550 hp. I would go with a Dart productions iron race block 9.5 deck with a 4.00 stroke and then build from there. Go with some nice pistons and then some crowler rods and use a 28 oz balance or zero balance. Then use some canted valve heads and a nice cam from luinati and you will be well into the 500 horsepower range.

Nice, but a 383 stroked 351 Roller block with AFR heads can give you 500 rwhp easily! 3.75" stroke gives a 1.667 rod to stroke ratio! Increase this ratio and increase torque exponentially! This is the secret to race boat engine builders. Shakes little cars nicely too! :halo: